department of education, energy, homeland security, interior, justice, state. in fact, it's more than we spend at all of them combined. maria, if we do nothing, by the year 2020, we'll be spending over $1 trillion a year on interest cost alone. that's $1 trillion we can't spend in this country to educate our kids or to rebuild our infrastructure or to do high-valuated research. unfortunately, it is $1 trillion that's going to be spent in those countries we're borrowing from. we'll be building the infrastructure in asia. we'll be educating those kids over there. it means we'll be building their universities so the research is done over there so the next new thing is created over there so the jobs of the future are there, not here. that's crazy. >> i think i know the answer to this next question, but i mean, what is a better outcome for the long-term fiscal health of the country? kicking the can down the road or leaving the status quo on spending and taxes or going over the fiscal cliff? i mean, do we need to go over the fiscal cliff with the four spending cuts a